Episode 33
Brian Johnson - From Major League Catcher to DEI Consultant
This week, Trisha, talks to Brian Johnson—a former professional baseball player who played in the US Major League. Some major life shifts saw Brian evolve into a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, Executive Consultant. Trisha and Brian discuss his experiences growing up in culturally diverse Oakland, his sports career, and key experiences that fostered his cultural intelligence. They unpack the athlete's metacognition and how the thinking processes of instant responses are developed. Brian also shares personal stories about his family and offers advice for those looking to create a more inclusive world. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about embracing diversity and fostering inclusion.
If you want to learn more about Brian's baseball career - here is his Wikipedia page and one of his memorable career moments. Connect with Brian on LinkedIn and check out his Kaleidoscope Group bio. And Follow his podcast Talent Chasing
Transcript
I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.
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[00:01:02] Trisha: As those of you who have listened to some of our earlier episodes will be aware, Cultural Intelligence, CQ, capability to be effective in situations of diversity, is made up of four areas. There's the Motivational, which is called CQ Drive, the Cognitive, CQ Knowledge, the Metacognitive, CQ Strategy, and Behavioural, CQ Action.
[:[00:01:50] Trisha: Before moving into the business world, Brian was a professional baseball catcher who played in major league baseball teams for eight years. He was recruited from college where he was on both the Stanford University baseball and the football teams. This is a true athletelessness, and after retiring from his professional playing career with the San Francisco Giants, he then worked in the front office for them for another 10 years, so he knows sport from a player's and a manager's perspective.
[:[00:02:34] Brian: Thank you. Thank you. Good to be here. Always good to be with you, Trisha.
[:[00:02:47] Brian: There's a lot. I lived in Mexico, for four months and I loved it down there. I lived in Puerto Rico, which is still part of the United States, but it's very culturally a different area, a different type of culture. So I loved it there. so I really enjoyed both of those. so there's a whole lot of cultures I enjoyed, but I, I think The place where I grew up was unique.
[:[00:03:30] Brian: And so many different colors and cultures mixed into our. Our little city of Oakland, California, that it was really fascinating. And then just 10 minutes across the water in San Francisco, across the bridge, across the Bay bridge. A lot of people know the golden gate bridge, but that kind of goes the other way.
[:[00:04:04] Brian: that may look differently from me or maybe from a different area or a different state or a different country. even though you asked me not to do home, I think home was really the most unique place for me.
[:[00:04:27] Brian: Yeah. well, you know, it kind of did. But my, because again, because of sports, I was very much into sports as a young kid, and so that kind of gave me creative license, maybe to be able to be a part of many groups, but not solely have to be a part of any of them. And so I was able to kind of bounce around and learn about lots of other people.
[:[00:05:05] Trisha: That's fascinating. Regular listeners might remember Mikel a few episodes ago, who spoke about when he was a young, kid, having the same sort of fascination with people who were different. And I think, you know, I haven't actually looked into cultural intelligence , at a child's age.
[:[00:05:38] Brian: Oh, yeah, I have a big one. let's see. So I, so as I mentioned, there's a lot of different folks that grew up in my city or that were in my city that I grew up in. and it was predominantly a black African American city. and I'm being a white heterosexual male. that was my lens, right? That's what I saw the world through.
[:[00:06:09] Brian: So back home in Oakland, you have the flatlands that are a little more diverse and you have the hills that are a little more exclusive. so I lived in the hills. my parents, my father was a cardiologist, a physician. My mother was an emergency room nurse. So, that's where I grew up and lived.
[:[00:06:44] Brian: And that changed my life. Honestly, that changed my life. So where I had a lot of teammates, that were black, sometime, usually I was the only white player, on the team or in the stadium or on the field, and it was a fascinating experience to go through that. to appreciate what it's like to be the only one to what it's like to be the different one.
[:[00:07:18] Brian: So I would go spend the, spend the night at some of my black players, friends, house, several of them. So it was a, it was a trend. and they would talk about racial situations, geographic situations, political things, religious things, like all this stuff they would talk about. And then when I would bring them over to my house to spend the night, my parents didn't talk about anything.
[:[00:07:54] Brian: Nobody tippy toed around my feelings. No one held back on the story of the details or maybe the forceness of discrimination and real racism happening to them. They told me in real time, and I was a part of the room, they treated me with love like a family member, not, and not worrying about what I, what they may say, may not say, and what I've heard or haven't heard.
[:[00:08:33] Trisha: So we've just come to the end of the whole, you know, podcast here and there and we could finish, but no, cause I want to go back there.
[:[00:08:56] Trisha: Was there discomfort in that experience as well?
[:[00:09:30] Brian: Keep it in the in the sports realm. I was a part of that team. So I was so angry. I didn't want to be a part of that team. I pushed back. I didn't want to be white anymore. I didn't want to be that. And I didn't want to be a part of that team. And I was so hurt that that someone like me was doing this for me, right?
[:[00:10:02] Brian: She was, one of those wise gray haired, just knew everything. Just, just had a soothing voice to her cooked really well. So we were both by, uh, it was just the two of us in her kitchen, right? Kitchen's where everything happens. And I told her about this first, she's like, you know, what's going on with you?
[:[00:10:27] Brian: And she said, mmm mmm mmm she's like, stop that right now. I was like, what are you talking about? Right. Cause she's a black woman. She would understand because I'm angry because of this.
[:[00:10:52] Brian: You try to do the best that you can try to make the world a better place every day that you have an opportunity. But, Latino folks, right? Dominicans don't like Puerto Ricans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans don't like Haitians. They all on the east coast and off the east coast of the United States in the Caribbean.
[:[00:11:27] Brian: So they have things going on within their culture that they don't like. So, black folks aren't really great with, Colorism, right? The light lighter complected black folks and darker complected black folks. A lot of times there's f riction there. A lot of times gay people don't get treated really well in the, in the black community.
[:Wow, what a woman. So, here was this young, young boy, and maybe that, that sort of first shift, that awareness of, of you, and, Your race, if you like, or your, your team, which I love the way you put that, was a beginning shift that you were aware of the injustice, you're aware of difference.
[:[00:12:35] Trisha: So, yeah, that's, that's fascinating. Thank you. In the introduction, I referred to your professional sporting career and you've told us a bit about the beginning here. Brian, I have real admiration for the skills shown by sports people such as yourself. And sometimes in our house, we are fans of rugby union and, you referred to me as Australian, but I'm just going to confess right here that, I probably will never support the Australian team. Be careful. You know, immigration might come and get me and take away my citizenship. but at heart, when it comes to rugby union, I will always be an all black supporter. And so sometimes as a family, we'll be sitting watching a game and you know, the ball might just go out of screen and then suddenly you'll see somebody with it and I'll go, how did he get it?
[:[00:13:47] Trisha: So as a non player, I'd love to know as a deeply skilled player, to what extent are you thinking about what you're doing? Like, you know, if you're up there and you're going to hit that ball as it's coming towards you, do you consciously think I'm going to hit it over there? Or, you know, here comes this ball and it's like this or, or is it just automatic?
[:[00:14:10] Brian: Yeah. Yeah. No, great question. I'd say it's two things. I say when you're practicing, it's very much a conscious effort.
[:[00:14:29] Brian: So they're just going to be straight. They're all going to be very easy lollipops. Right. So that I can really work on my mechanics and the mechanics of what I'm hitting the ball. So if I hit it to the left side of the field, I'll hit it a little bit earlier. If I want to hit it to the right side of the field, I'll wait a little bit longer and allow it to get to me a little bit more and then push it and hit it that way.
[:[00:15:05] Brian: Every, I think in every walk of life or any, any business or any, any fashion, people will talk about the fundamentals, fundamental, fundamental. Well, why are the fundamentals important?
[:[00:15:21] Brian: Why? Because when you're in competition, or when you're in the thick of it, or when you have a crisis, or when you have something go down, everything speeds up, you have to decide quicker, you have to do everything. So it's important that those fundamentals were practiced over and over again, so that you don't have to think.
[:[00:16:04] Brian: Because when, when you're in the moment, regardless of what it is, you can't control it. You're hoping that your training will take over. So I would say, I do think about it a lot in the practice stage. But when it becomes game time, I react and respond, which puts me in a great position to do well as an athlete.
[:[00:16:30] Brian: Which, which happens a lot.
[:[00:16:47] Brian: Well, again, going back to the 10, 000 hours, because I put so much time and effort into practicing and training that when a, a bump in the road happens, I'm able to still have my confidence, right? Not everything is, going to be reliant upon success in every moment. Where I get my confidence from is the work. So I've practiced, I've been successful thousands of times. in in this this particular skill, be it defensive, be it throwing, be it hitting, whatever it may be in sports and baseball. And so because I've seen myself succeed thousands of time in a controlled environment, I know I can do it in this other environment.
[:[00:17:48] Brian: So you have to be able to, garner your confidence from something else because the game's not going to give it to you. It has to be from your training.
[:[00:18:15] Trisha: How do you coach them in the, if it goes wrong?
[:[00:18:32] Brian: Because if the person is higher level where they have the commitment mentally that they want to be great.
[:[00:18:56] Brian: And give them what they need versus what I think they should have in case a crisis happens. So for the, the elite athlete, I will coach them one way and be able to let them know, Hey, strategically, here's where we're going to pivot, right? Or shift to, uh, when the crisis happens for the majority of people when I'm coaching, it's like, it's overwhelming them with encouragement because I know they're not going to be able to pivot.
[:[00:19:42] Brian: They know I believe in them and I don't care what happens. I'm going to love them before, during, and after, regardless of what the, what, uh, how well they do or how well they don't do.
[:[00:19:55] Brian: I can see the wheels turning. I can see
[:[00:19:56] Trisha: I know. I know we could go down there and in so many ways and unpack the role of a coach. But we won't because I really want to get onto, the next big shift, which, you know, is from me looking on, maybe there were other big shifts in, in your life too, but you moved from being a professional sports person in that way to working in the area of diversity.
[:[00:20:21] Brian: so my rookie year in the major leagues. so my first year, so I'm not making any money yet. I had, I was in the under leagues or the minor leagues before for four years. I was a struggling college student before that. so I was in the city of Chicago here in the Midwest in the United States.
[:[00:21:01] Brian: The off season was very off. And so this was a big crisis. There was a really, um, the ownership of baseball. We're really trying to break the union is what they were trying to do. So I was on the executive board of the union, so I was able to see all the inner workings of it, even though I was a rookie.
[:[00:21:37] Brian: And she was starting this diversity firm called, called the kaleidoscope group. And so no one knew what a diversity firm was back then in 1994, and no one knows what a diversity firm is in 2024, but that's okay. and so I didn't know anything about it, but she needed someone to transcribe flip charts.
[:[00:22:10] Brian: She's an icon in the diversity field. And she is a white woman worked with Malcolm X. Who is an icon of the civil rights movement, a great black leader here in America. Um, he and Martin Luther King, kind of the two icons. Malcolm X was more the forceful, wanted, at least early on in his life, he wanted, by any means necessary.
[:[00:22:50] Brian: So I worked for her for that three or four month period. And she taught me the business, a lot of it, not all of it. And so I was fascinated with, you know, difference and helping people out and diversity, what that meant and, and equality and trying to, uh, equity, uh, and really trying to, to make the world a better place.
[:[00:23:26] Brian: And, I would learn something more. And so it took me a long time before I was able to, to be a facilitator for an educational session, uh, but it's okay. And so I've been working in diversity for almost 30 years now. Because of Bea Young because of the kaleidoscope group, which is the company both you and I worked for today.
[:[00:24:02] Brian: And, you know, now we have 27 different languages spoken within our company. We're all over the world, as evidence of, of you, uh, and you're, you're a global team doing so much for us. It's been just a great thing for our organization as well. And we work with over a thousand different clients in every different industry you can imagine.
[:[00:24:23] Trisha: and that makes perfect sense. The off season sort of an opportunity to earn a bit more money maybe, and, develop some skills, because so often that is a problem with, well, I think all professional sports people. And we've seen that with the Olympics that have just happened and people mentioning, you know, now they've got to, they're retiring and they've got to work out where they go next.
[:[00:24:58] Brian: Well, it's interesting you said because yes, it was just as bad for me and why? Because I didn't know who I was without sports.
[:[00:25:12] Trisha: You got a proper degree. It wasn't, it wasn't one of these ones they give the sports people as sort of a,
[:[00:25:38] Brian: And so that's a long time I've been using my body to make money, using my body to, I got to manage it. I got to do everything. My brain was important too, but now it's going to shift to where 90 percent is going to be my brain. Only 10 percent of my, my physical, ability or lack thereof, right. I got to build up some new muscles here.
[:[00:26:00] Trisha: Oh wow
[:[00:26:14] Brian: I knew diversity work was there, but I didn't want to fall into that. what I already knew. I wanted to expand, explore. I want to try other things, but it was difficult because the sports background, everybody says, Oh, well, I'm sure all your, you know, working with teammates and being able to handle adversity and all this stuff that'll translate.
[:[00:26:45] Brian: People didn't know me there. I didn't have relationships as I had in other cities I played in, and so I had to really find something for me that was unique, which is a great experience, but it was very difficult.
[:[00:27:20] Trisha: And to me, the moment you said it, which wasn't something I'd thought about in the same way, but I thought, Oh yeah, I can immediately see how that applies, you know, in a working situation. did you find you could bring the learning from, you know, the professional, athlete field into the, corporate world?
[:[00:27:53] Brian: It's a favorite topic of mine. Where when I was in sports, I had a whole kinds of athletic privilege, right? Because I had trained so much. I familiarized myself with, I had relationships. I knew things were going on. Now I walk into a new corporate situation where I have zero privilege. I don't know where I'm going.
[:[00:28:24] Brian: And, and oftentimes that would happen eventually. It didn't, didn't happen always overnight. Because a lot of times in corporate America, I found there wasn't this team atmosphere. There was very much, uh, silos where people are kind of looking out for themselves and doing what they need to do. So I had to learn that too.
[:[00:28:59] Brian: But it was later, I had to just get my foot in the door. I had to go experience something. I had to be new. I had to be awkward. I had to learn. And then once I got through that initial phase, I was able to bring in all the other stuff that that really, came from my athletic career, which
[:[00:29:13] Trisha: And you referenced your wife and little babies before, and you mentioned she was a med student a bit earlier back. you've told me about them before. Can you tell us a little bit about them?
[:[00:29:46] Brian: Well, she's the one that keeps you from going to surgery. and try to keep you from going to surgery. So let's put a, let's put a strategy together, try to solve your problem without having surgery. But if you do have to have surgery, she's the one that designs the rehab, right? No one likes the rehab after your surgery, but she's the one that designs and manages that rehabilitation after surgery.
[:[00:30:23] Brian: So she's dealing with a lot of folks that are dealing with their lives changing in an instance. If they stepped off the curb and got hit by a car, the brain injury will not heal. You will be different than you were five minutes ago for the rest of your life. And so she works with them a lot, as to how to get to know yourself again and how to know the new you, not keep yearning for what you used to be, but learning to love the person that you are.
[:[00:30:57] Trisha: Is that
[:[00:30:58] Brian: no, we met before sport. We met the first day of school in our dorm. Her roommate and my roommate knew each other.
[:[00:31:11] Brian: I told my roommate that.
[:[00:31:14] Brian: So he was like, oh, yeah, whatever. Sure. Sure. And so it took a little while to convince that she's a African American woman. She's black. And so we have an interracial marriage. And so it took her a while to realize that, Hey, you need to give this white guy a chance. You need to, uh, you need to consider that a little bit.
[:[00:31:39] Trisha: wow. Congratulations.
[:[00:31:52] Brian: And now he's working on his business administration degree. so I don't know if he wants to open a restaurant at some point, but he's trying to get all those skills together and, and also enjoying, enjoying baseball at the same time. my daughter, was a volleyball and basketball player in high school.
[:[00:32:21] Brian: And now she wants to go to medical school and to be a physician like my wife. So yeah, those are, that's my family. Thank you for asking.
[:[00:32:31] Brian: Yeah. and, the medical and the medical connection the medical
[:[00:32:35] Brian: And honestly, we don't, we have no idea how that happened because we didn't push either one on, on them. There was not some, they had to do something. They couldn't just do nothing, but Eventually, they all kind of came around ironically to what we used to do, which was a surprise to us because, we cheered and we loved everything that they did as kids.
[:[00:32:55] Trisha: That's lovely. And I guess too, as you are doing the diversity work that it must, you know, motivate you in lots of ways as you think about your kids stepping into a workplace. So how can people follow up with you, Brian, if they want to learn more, if they want to follow you?
[:[00:33:30] Brian: Sure. so I'm on Facebook. I can be reached on Facebook. Brian Johnson in Detroit Michigan is where I am. So that usually is where people can find me. but yes, I, I'm also doing a podcast, which is interesting. it's called talent chasing. So it's all about business talent and or sports talent.
[:[00:34:00] Trisha: Yay, LinkedIn!
[:[00:34:03] Brian: yes, yes. Through linked in is a great way to find me as well.
[:[00:34:26] Brian: We've had, , a couple of footballers from, real footballers right out there. Cause American football should not be called football. You all have it right out there and
[:[00:34:38] Brian: Oh! Do hey really? I didn't
[:[00:34:42] Trisha: Australia Australia has four different types of football, but that, that could be another podcast altogether.
[:[00:35:08] Brian: It's just a story that happens to be based around
[:[00:35:36] Trisha: How do we teach people how to think with them? So I think we may have to come back and discuss that further, because I'm suspecting that some of the people listening to this will be going, you could have asked them about, because they're very intelligent people, I think, and they will know that at this point, I normally finish, but this from the One of the things I'm trying at the moment is some, some closing questions.
[:[00:36:07] Brian: Ooh. Um, I would say be humble. Realize it's not going to go well all the time. And that's okay. That's part of the fun of it. And to appreciate the people who are around you and work your tail off. That's what I would say.
[:[00:36:35] Brian: I'm hoping for, less hate. I'm humbling for a much more inclusive world. We can really appreciate one another. I don't like hate. I will fight hate any place, any time, and that has been my passion through my life. I think being in diversity so long is that really, that's what we're doing. We're trying to bring people together.
[:[00:37:15] Trisha: Thank you so much, Brian. I really appreciate that. And thank you to our listeners. And please make sure that you have pushed that follow or subscribe button on your podcast app so that you can be informed of the next episode of The Shift.
