Episode 50
Flor Bretón-García - Empowering Global Leaders
This week, Trisha Carter chats with Flor Bretón-García, a seasoned expert in navigating cultural complexities within organizations. Flor shares her personal migration journey from Venezuela to the US and Germany, discussing the emotional and professional challenges she overcame. They explore how cultural shifts influence workplace dynamics, the impact of language and accents in the workplace, and the critical role of storytelling in leadership development. The episode emphasizes empathy, inclusion, and the importance of culturally aware practices in today's globalized work environment.
Connect with Flor via LinkedIn
As mentioned in the episode:
Episode 23 Dr Joanna Selles - Storytelling for Cultural Shifts
Make sure you join Trisha in this journey of growth and discovery throughout the year via Substack or LinkedIn.
Transcript
The Shift 50
[:[00:00:39] Trisha: Hi there everyone. I'm Trisha Carter, an organizational psychologist and explorer of cultural intelligence. I'm on a quest to discover what enables us to see things from different perspectives and especially different cultural perspectives, and why sometimes it's easier than others to experience those moments of awareness.
[:[00:01:28] Trisha: Today we'll be touching on CQ strategy as we always do, and probably jumping through many of the others as well. I'm delighted to welcome my dear friend and colleague, Flor Bretón-García. Flor and I have worked together. We are on the board of the Families and Global Transition for many years, and on the Kaleidoscope Group Global team.
[:[00:01:59] Trisha: Flor brings over 20 years of experience working across cultural lines of difference to support global leaders in organizations. She's a trained lawyer with a JD and she also holds a master's degree in Applied linguistics. I was thinking about that Flor as I was writing it and reflecting on it and thought that's probably not very common.
[:[00:02:41] Trisha: She's born in Venezuela, has lived in Germany in various parts of the United States, and she speaks Spanish, English, and German. She's working with clients ranging from luxury brands to manufacturing companies and tech giants, always helping them bridge cultural divides and develop inclusive practices.
[:[00:03:22] Trisha: Welcome Flor.
[:[00:03:26] Trisha: Oh, it's wonderful to have you here. And I'm sure everybody will pick up how long we have been friends and just how this conversation is a chat between friends and so many of the, our previous conversations have been as well. But yeah, this is great. So Flor standard opening question.
[:[00:03:49] Flor: Trisha, I love this question because it was. It was challenging for me, but also exciting to think about it. So I'm must tell you, I think that I have fell in love with the specific aspects of the two cultures of the countries where I have had the opportunity to live. So I'm a, I'm in love with certain aspects of the German culture and I, you know, head over heels completely in love with certain aspects of the US culture.
[:[00:04:26] Trisha: That's right. So what is the favourite food items that generated that idea?
[:[00:04:49] Flor: So more than the coffee and the cake is the fact that we come together. It's a pause in the middle of your weekend to come together and have a moment of conversation. And if you ask me about the US culture is one tradition that I have to, that I adopt and adopted and I love is Thanksgiving.
[:[00:05:14] Trisha: Oh, that's lovely. So can you tell me about a time when you experienced a shift when you suddenly became aware of a new perspective?
[:[00:05:45] Flor: So it was hard at the beginning. I couldn't understand words then trying to find a job with the limitations of our permit. So many things. And then after 10 years, 11 years living in there, I got the opportunity to move to Germany. Same challenges, language, finding, you know, a, a residence permit, getting to work and all that.
[:[00:06:47] Flor: And I'm talking, this was in 2015, this conversation I'm talking about, I could see that there was certain resistance to welcome in, these individuals. And at one point in the conversation, Trish, I remember that I stopped it and I said. In my very, just very raw German. But what about me? You are speaking about foreigners in your country.
[:[00:07:34] Flor: That even as an immigrant I had and I have privileges that position me in a different place than others. And it was sad because I could see the different ways of accepting me and accepting others. I could see how others were or could be discriminated, and I wasn't because I came from a different country or because I had maybe economic ways to sustain myself in the country and all that.
[:[00:08:29] Trisha: And in that moment you were able to sort of see yourself in the conversation, see yourself out of the conversation, see how people were looking at you, think about how they were looking at other people as well. People with different. Linguistic ability maybe who hadn't begun the journey yet. People whose skin colour was different, whose religious beliefs might have been different, and see all of those privileges as you put them that you hadn't sort of necessarily been counting.
[:[00:08:58] Flor: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like you said, Trisha. One moment. At that moment I wasn't part of the group because I was still a foreigner, but I wasn't part of the group that I thought I had always.
[:[00:09:18] Flor: I'm an immigrant, I'm expat, whatever term you want to use, depending of the work that I was doing abroad. But it was hard because at that moment I was like, oh, I, I might not belong to this one either. So, but then that moment of what can I do for those who are seen in a different way or in a different life from, than me?
[:[00:09:40] Trisha: Flor you've already referenced a number of those significant transitions across cultures. You've talked about moving from Venezuela to the US then to Germany. I know we've also said that you've moved back to the US from that moment of awareness you shared before. Can you share anything about these transitions that shaped your worldview as well as the work you do that you shared before?
[:[00:10:07] Flor: Yes. Yes, Trisha and. It might not be directly related to work, but I believe that one of the key aspects of success of a person living abroad lies on the capacity or the ability of the opportunity to have friends and create friendships. And there is no secret that when we move to other countries, we bring with us.
[:[00:10:53] Flor: So I, I brought with me that idea of how to make friends and what friendship means based on my Venezuelan upbringing. When I was in Texas I was very concentrated on learning English, finding a job, raising a family. Trisha, I have shared my personal story with you before. I had three beautiful children, so they were born there, so I was quite busy and I must confess.
[:[00:11:43] Flor: And she was in Venezuela. I couldn't
[:[00:12:11] Flor: And she hugged me and I could completely, I was able to let go and just refuge her arms.
[:[00:12:44] Flor: Like I was to find. Good friends and deep friendships in, in ways and in and with cultural twist and mixes that I never expected before.
[:[00:12:56] Trisha: Just stop making me emotional. 'cause it's just making it worse.
[:[00:13:01] Trisha: So when we think about friendship, we don't always think we. What you had made the assumption of you had understood already that friendship is something that's defined by our cultural values and that the way we make friends will impact the way we make friends in our home countries will impact on our expectations.
[:[00:13:27] Trisha: So lots of people will never have had that ability. So this is, that's a great story to tell, to first of all by acknowledging your own expectations and then just how surprised you were by a true moment of friendship and how it was so upbuilding. And that's a wonderful thing to hear and hope it inspires all of us to make those true moments of friendship.
[:[00:14:11] Trisha: It's a great organization. And really it is an organization that builds friendships, I think, and that's one of its great benefits. What stories or moments stand out from you that illustrate, I guess, the human side of global mobility in the people that we were working with or working together there?
[:[00:14:53] Flor: But it was my very first meeting with this person
[:[00:14:57] Trisha: think we can, I think we can name the
[:[00:15:17] Flor: The friendship wasn't there yet. And I'm running Trisha because I'm myself in the middle of a transition. That was the moment. It was a COVID-19. That was the year 2020. I was also in the middle of moving from Germany back to the United States. My husband was already here in the United States working because he needed to come together first.
[:[00:15:57] Flor: pyjama’s. Well Flor here is the part where you are gonna be yourself and you're just gonna do it.
[:[00:17:00] Flor: too. There is a human side to that global mobility piece. At that moment, I needed to function, I needed to give my best to the organization to family global transition. At the moment, I needed to be the best partner for my for, for the co-chair director of communications. But I was just in a very stressful situation, so she allowed me the space to kind of, feel those emotions with her there.
[:[00:17:35] Trisha: That is lovely and I can completely imagine that conversation taking place between the two of you and our listeners will know Sarah Black because she has already been a guest on the podcast two times. And so, if you are a regular listener, you can imagine her having that response. Flor, your break around combines law linguistics. Cultural expertise, and as I referenced before, it is a really fascinating combination. How do these different disciplines inform your approach to the work that you've been doing with global organizations?
[:[00:18:26] Flor: But
[:[00:18:27] Trisha: from the perspective of this is an amazing, a
[:[00:18:45] Flor: That I consider, that I wear myself. One is analytical thinking.
[:[00:19:12] Flor: Into smaller pieces so I can kind of review or check every piece individually and find solutions in short term and long term that are gonna solve the problem that looks very complex at first sight. And finally, is the ability to also see elements that might look solo or disjointed, but I can bring them together in one effective system.
[:[00:19:58] Flor: linguistics, Trisha, there is
[:[00:21:17] Flor: To the way that they identify language and the way they see their own behaviours. So if you incorporate to that, the law piece, then again, law means. Looking at a complex challenge breaking into pieces, and that's what happens when I work in change management with organizations. It is overwhelming to see the issue of the challenge as a whole piece.
[:[00:22:00] Flor: As a matter of fact, I sometimes I need to hold the bag Trisha, because I'm always looking at the little, you know, the small letter, the small line of things and I can get down a rabbit hole with that.
[:[00:22:12] Trisha: Yeah. That's brilliant. One of the things we've spoken about in the past is how language changes our brain and the language that we grow up with has shaped our brain in certain ways. And as you spoke about the linguistics and how you bring that to your consulting work. I can certainly see that happening.
[:[00:22:48] Trisha: You know, because often we know our own cultures. And we don't recognize how others have been shaped. And so part of our roles is often helping people to see how others have been shaped differently. Has that been a factor? Things you've seen?
[:[00:23:24] Flor: Beyond that, there is one element that has always been a key insight over or an aha moment for executives in both continents. If you talk about the Central and South American or Europe I'm gonna give you a quick example. In Germany, for example, we all the leaders, executives, that I have the opportunity to work.
[:[00:24:00] Trisha: Yeah.
[:[00:24:32] Flor: So there is not that moment of, tell me about your weekend. I don't know who you are. Nice to meet you on Florida and Trisha, and then you go. You start with that. Same thing has happened to me when I'm preparing executives in South America, central America, to go and work in Germany because it's like, why do they immediately start talking about business?
[:[00:25:15] Flor: And like in aha moment, like you said, a key insight.
[:[00:25:46] Trisha: What have you seen?
[:[00:26:11] Flor: So you always find that element is one of the first one that pops, one of the first one that appears that we do work with. The second one is the communication breakdowns, and what is, this is also different communication styles, different ways of providing and receiving feedback. And usually these different communication styles create misinterpretation of facts and even mistrust.
[:[00:27:09] Flor: So it is somehow, Trisha, a combination and a collaboration of the cultures of the two companies instead of being seen. One, organizational, cultural, dominating or dominant over the one that is coming on board. So that's part of the work that we do. It's quite interesting and addresses those two main challenges that we see.
[:[00:27:31] Trisha: Yeah. And those are. Massive differences in challenges, and yet in every merger and acquisition will need to be something that, you know, due diligence is done to assess where an organization is at exactly the way you've described. So really important work. And then taking from that organization level down to a team level.
[:[00:28:06] Flor: Trisha, I could say, and I was thinking. Lot about those differences because I have several requests from clients that want us to bring the trainings or the leadership development sessions in person more than virtual nowadays. So, and
[:[00:28:27] Flor: But when I want to think about the part that I'm most passionate about, communication and language, I must say that for certain cultures, for certain countries and cultural patterns, it is more beneficial to meet or have those interactions in person. Then it is virtual because this deep person space is gonna allow you to create the relationships at first.
[:[00:29:15] Flor: Unless you want to be looking down the whole time you need, you are required to have that contact eye contact that is direct in an in-person space. You're gonna be able to lay your eyesight in other spaces that will help you with that cultural pattern or bringing that you have. What is the main benefit or the principle benefit that I see in the virtual space, and you and I have seen with the work that we do is that more people are able to access. Some of the conversations, some of the calls, some of the interactions, trainings and learning and development, because then you don't have to fly them from one country to the other one. And I'm referring to especially to global organizations. The impact on the environment is also less.
[:[00:30:11] Trisha: Absolutely. And all of those things that you're speaking about, I have experienced as well can echo those and can also say that it is possible to build positive environments virtually, and positive relationships virtually. And I think sometimes people make the assumption that if we are really going to work well together, we must first of all meet in person.
[:[00:30:48] Flor: I know Trisha, but there is some. There is. So yes to what you're saying and we need to be very intentional about the way we design and we schedule these interactions. Virtual. I think that for certain cultures and certain fields of work, there needs to be a buffer before or spaces where you can create that rapport outside of the meeting with the agenda.
[:[00:31:21] Trisha: Yeah.
[:[00:31:36] Trisha: You've worked with immigrant women, both in Germany and the US helping them enter the corporate workforce. What barriers do they typically face and what painful mis conceptions do organizations often have about global talent?
[:[00:32:10] Flor: There are several barriers and misconceptions that we get. Societal level, community, organizational. So I want to acknowledge that there are out there immigrant women working very hard to be successful and to be able to work in a different country. And I think, Trisha, that one of the first challenges or misconceptions that are out there and that I have encountered myself begins with language.
[:[00:32:59] Flor: They're highly trained. You have lawyers, you have engineers, you have educators, you have all these women that are extremely smart and prepared and they're not able to insert themselves in the workforce in their areas of training because the language is a barrier. And even though they end up learning the language, one everlasting or ever present barrier, and I had this talk with you before, is the accent.
[:[00:33:42] Flor: Or that we are less prepared.
[:[00:34:12] Flor: If you said it just out of it. So it is always that. And
[:[00:34:18] Flor: it has been a topical conversation and of many of our discussions before is the work gap. Meaning that moment when we leave our countries of residents or home countries and we move to another place, there is always a time that we are not working.
[:[00:34:52] Flor: And that's why you see that gap in there. So several elements that might cause organizations to judge us in a way that is not accurate.
[:[00:35:25] Trisha: Unless you unpack that thinking and recognize that you are actually have a bias towards that accent, then you're not going to listen to the content that the person is saying. And it can be a really helpful exercise sometimes in a training situation to just get your participants to listen to accents.
[:[00:36:01] Flor: Trisha, I have told you that phrase that I have heard many times. Your accent is so distracting. It's just what you're saying. It's you're not listening to my message. You're just listening to my accent. Go deeper.
[:[00:36:24] Flor: Oh yeah. I have heard that too.
[:[00:36:26] Trisha: And Unintelligent Idiot is another box and Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so many, not just women but because of your work, you've focused specifically on women, but so many migrants, you know, face these challenges.
[:[00:37:12] Trisha: You've implemented inclusive leadership programs across 36 different countries. What positive approaches have you found that transcend the national boundaries? And might offer a path forward in today's challenging climate.
[:[00:37:32] Flor: Sharing stories back to those first questions that you asked me about experiences and I told you about authenticity. It is necessary in this work with leadership teams, with executives to appeal to their empathy and to share stories that helps them connect with a reality of groups that have been.
[:[00:38:10] Flor: I'm thinking, do I say it? Do I? But I know this is a safe space. And the people listening to your podcast also are. Individuals that are gonna provide a safe space for your guests. But it's, that is the power of the storytelling and how stories bring us closer. But for that, we really need to have our hearts open to listen to those stories and want to get involved and learn more about what's happening.
[:[00:38:35] Trisha: And we need to have the time to listen.
[:[00:38:43] Trisha: Yes. We have an earlier episode listeners and I'll highlight it in the show notes where Dr. Joanna sells spoke about storytelling and she's very skilled in this area.
[:[00:39:12] Flor: Trisha, three things come to mind. Three, three words. Language, community, volunteering,
[:[00:39:34] Flor: Language. If you are moving to a place where you don't speak the language or the language is not your first language, learn work hard to do it, to not get discourage from your accent. Your accent is gonna be a powerful tool when you do this job. It is for me. Now, it is a, an eye-opener. It is a conversation starter.
[:[00:40:15] Flor: Then the part of community. I know it's hard, that integration, and you and I were talking about the different challenges that are happening right now for immigrant immigrants in the world is in the United States especially. And we also see attrition in western European countries at the moment, but again, is find opportunities to, to spend time in the community and be open to those friendships even in the friendships.
[:[00:41:09] Flor: Go beyond what I'm living and that I can be a part or a change agent with those on those things. So this work requires that. Is this you and I have talked before Trisha it's about serving.
[:[00:41:24] Trisha: And as you look at your life, the people you've worked with, your family and community, and as you look at the future in this changing and challenging political landscape, what are you hoping for?
[:[00:42:01] Flor: Because we do not understand. We are highly, you know, we are fearful of those things that we don't know how we can create opportunities to get, to listen to those stories, to get to know those individuals and to open a space for them in the societies and the communities where we are. And it begins at an organizational level as well.
[:[00:42:41] Trisha: Opportunities for individuals and for organizations. Yeah. How would you like people to follow up with you? I can put your LinkedIn
[:[00:42:52] Flor: absolutely Trisha, by LinkedIn
[:[00:42:54] Trisha: Fantastic. So we'll put that in the show notes and you can connect with Flor. She would love to make a connection with you there.
[:[00:43:02] Trisha: Thank you Flor.
[:[00:43:04] Trisha: Really appreciate your coming and speaking with me and to the listeners today. And speaking from your very authentic self being very human with us sharing your skills, yes, but also sharing your challenges. Really appreciate it.
[:[00:43:43] Trisha: And please join us in a fortnight on the Shift. .
