Episode 58
Dr. Kristal Walker - Building Authenticity and Cultural Intelligence Together
In this episode, Trisha interviews Dr. Kristal Walker, Vice President of Employee Wellbeing at Sweetwater and a certified professional in training management. Dr. Kristal shares her remarkable transformation from high school dropout to doctoral graduate, revealing how this journey fundamentally shaped her approach to leadership and creating inclusive environments where people don't have to "code switch or shrink" to belong.
They explore Dr. Kristal's innovative Four D Learning Lifecycle (Design, Develop, Deliver, Debrief) for designing cultural intelligence training that creates lasting change, and dive deep into the powerful concept of "brave spaces" versus safe spaces. Dr. Kristal challenges conventional thinking by reframing a critical question many professionals face: instead of asking "How do I fit in?" she advocates for "How do I stay grounded while I navigate this system?" This shift in perspective offers a transformative approach to authentic leadership in diverse corporate environments.
Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, Dr. Kristal demonstrates how authenticity serves as the foundation of credibility and how leaders can maintain their authentic selves while delivering exceptional results for their organisations.
Connect with Dr Kristal Walker on LinkedIn.
Make sure you join Trisha in this journey of growth and discovery throughout the year via Substack or LinkedIn.
Transcript
[00:00:14]
[:[00:01:01] As regular listeners know, cultural intelligence, CQ is made up of four areas, motivational cq, drive. Cognitive CQ knowledge, metacognitive CQ Strategy and Behavioral CQ Action. All four of these capabilities help us operate well in situations of diversity. In this podcast, we are focusing more on the metacognitive aspect, the thinking about our thinking, and that is CQ strategy.
[:[00:01:53] She brings over 20 years of experience helping clients engage people, apply processes, and implement technology to improve human and organizational performance. Kristal holds a doctorate in organizational leadership, is a certified professional in training management, and is certified in various assessment tools.
[:[00:02:36] Welcome Kristal.
[:[00:02:40] Trisha: Lovely to have you here, and I'm looking forward to this discussion.
[:[00:02:59] Trisha: Oh, thank you, Kristal. That's really encouraging. Okay, we have standard opening questions, so here we go.
[:[00:03:14] Kristal: I think Trisha, for me, it's not about a specific ethnicity or nationality per se, it's more about the type of culture. So for me I tend to thrive best in cultures that, or organically inclusive spaces where people don't have to code switch or shrink or explain a way of who they are just to belong.
[:[00:03:53] And I think those are the cultures that I tend to gravitate to, and they're the ones where I tend to do my best work.
[:[00:04:02] Kristal: I have not found many of them, but I've also learned how to not force myself to be in those organizations that will require me to compromise my personal integrity and my values.
[:[00:04:13] Trisha: Yeah. That is hard.
[:[00:04:18] Kristal: That's exactly right. I think it's important for us to do work like this so that we could start to create those cultures, or at least teach others how to create those cultures.
[:[00:04:37] Kristal: Oh, sure. I think one, I was thinking about this question a lot 'cause I kind of figured it would come up just with the title and the theme of your podcast series. And one of the most defining moments for me, I believe was when I had started my doctoral journey. What many if you know me personally, you know, I, I don't mind sharing my very transparent story, but I was a high school dropout.
[:[00:05:22] But I started the doctoral journey at about 26 years old already being a parent to three children, three small children. Whom I was raised in as a single parent. And so my journey kind of, transitioned between being a high school dropout or transitioned from, I should say, being a high school dropout to a first generation college graduate and stepping into academia or that space in general, it really forced me to reframe my mindset around what's possibility.
[:[00:06:38] And so I had to shift, from survival mode to how can I position myself to thrive in this new culture where there's not a lot of us at that time, I think out of the entire, class that I was in, the cohort that I was in, it was maybe about 75 of us at that time pursuing a doctorate degree. And maybe if I can count maybe possibly 10 African Americans on one hand.
[:[00:07:22] Because of some of the cultural aspects, I had to unlearn and relearn that a lot of that was not normal. And I think the academic shift for me, it wasn't just an academic journey, it was more transformational for me in terms of my lifestyle. It taught me that I didn't have to get permission from my past to be who I wanted to be in the future.
[:[00:08:03] And so it's given them a completely different perspective, not just of you and what they're witnessing with you, but what the possibilities are for themselves as well.
[:[00:08:23] Kristal: You know, I think growing up I had a vision of what I didn't want.
[:[00:08:27] Kristal: You know, I knew I didn't want. A life filled with poverty. I didn't want a life filled with drama or trauma. I didn't want a life of living in survival mode for the rest of my life. And so while I didn't necessarily have a clear picture of what I wanted, I knew if I can pursue the opposite,
[:[00:09:04] People that I had an opportunity to meet up close and personal, but maybe people that I watched afar and I watched how they had transitioned their stories and their lives, and I thought, heck, if they can do it, I certainly can. And so that was the model for me.
[:[00:09:23] Kristal: Yeah.
[:[00:09:24] Trisha: Yeah. I think anyone who's following you, on LinkedIn would be very aware of the respect with which you are held in the training industry in the US and in the us. Do we say the training industry or learning and development, or are the two terms interchangeable?
[:[00:09:59] But then there is the training industry, or the corporate training, or learning and development industry in general.
[:[00:10:24] Kristal: Absolutely. So I'll explain first what the model is and how it came to be, and then I'll explain it also in the context of cultural intelligence. So, it's formally titled The four D Learning Lifecycle. And it's a model that I created to help learning professionals think holistically about a training request and how to bring that training request to life.
[:[00:11:06] So oftentimes in this space. There's this concept that we refer to quite often as an order taker. And because many training professionals did not opt to be a training professional when they were younger they just sort of landed in the space either because they're really good at what they do.
[:[00:12:03] But if we have not spent the time to unpack whether or not training is the true solution for the problem that's been presented to us, then we could miss the mark. With the true request, we end up solving for symptoms rather than the root cause. We end up losing credibility as a training professional because we've not been able to successfully solve the problem.
[:[00:12:43] And then you get a leader that will come to the training team and say, Hey, can you build some time management training for our marketing team? Because clearly they're having some time management issues because they aren't entering projects that are coming in in a timely fashion. Well. If I were that training organization, I could do just that.
[:[00:13:19] So that training design phase is all about strategy. It's all about asking the right questions. What are we trying to solve for? What are the learning objectives? Who are the learners? And so the goal is not to start building content until you've been able to answer all of those questions. Okay? So then once we've got all of that information dialed in, and then we move into the development phase. The development phase is all about building.
[:[00:14:13] And then after the training environment, once they transfer over to their jobs. So you got design, develop, and then you move into the delivery phase. And so oftentimes this is where we tend to see training professionals show up most when they're actually, you know, facilitating the training live and in person.
[:[00:14:52] And so the delivery stage is, it happens best when we've taken the time to do the previous steps. We're really sure about what it is that we're designing. We're developing something that has multiple components. We can really lean into what it is that our audience is expected of us, because we've asked all the right questions and we know exactly what tools is gonna help us articulate that message.
[:[00:15:33] That just enhances the learning experience overall. So it's the environment or the phase where learning is actually shaped. The energy for the learning experience is shaped. The knowledge is actually transferring by way of connection. And then you have the debrief stage, which is the last phase of the training.
[:[00:16:17] And are there any results of the company? In other words are, can we see the Kirkpatrick model, for example, reflected in the training that we just rolled out? So it's a good opportunity for the both the learner and the facilitator to get that necessary feedback. Capture any lessons. Tweak or modify any training that's necessary so that the next time you roll that out, it makes sense.
[:[00:16:51] Trisha: Listeners, in case you're not familiar with Kirkpatrick, I will put the book reference in the show notes. it's one of those I have mine still from many years ago. Well, thumbed, it's still on the bookshelf, but yeah it's a classic in the learning and development field.
[:[00:17:12] Kristal: Yeah, so it's played out. And again, I wanted to explain just the context of the framework first, and then I can give you an example of how it works within a realm of cq. So it's played out oftentimes in some of the most meaningful learning experiences that I've built, at least. 'cause I'm also very mindful of what feels like to be excluded.
[:[00:17:49] Right. So what are some potential biases that can come up as a result of the learning experience? What are some potential miscommunication opportunities or some assumptions that may come up? And quite frankly, what are some challenges that I know learners may have when they go to apply this?
[:[00:18:25] And then once I have a general understanding of that, sometimes I can get that Trisha by just asking like, what are some of the challenges that you might experience? Sometimes I get that based on feedback that I get from others outside of the training experience. Sometime that feedback may come from the next level manager.
[:[00:18:51] But once I get that information, then I tend to develop materials that aren't just informative, but more of reflective.
[:[00:19:02] Trisha: Absolutely. Gotta get that CQ strategy
[:[00:19:25] I've always thought about this particular scenario, this way. I had no idea that it could be interpreted this way, you know? And it's almost like you see this big aha moment come to life where people realize, well, I didn't even realize I was being offensive in that matter. I'll give you an example.
[:[00:20:09] I want you to introduce yourself. And so I had a couple of learners come up and here it is. I'm thinking I'm being courteous. One of the, I'll just make up the person's name, Jane, for example. All right, Ms. Jane, you're up next. Right? That is a regular common trait that I normally would do, but if I'm being inclusive as a part of my design, development and delivery process, I'm not gonna refer to Jane as a miss because maybe they refer to themselves as a, they.
[:[00:21:20] Some healthy tension, some healthy discomfort to get people talking about areas that may require them to come outta their comfort zone a little bit. That always helps. And then when it comes to debriefing, it's just about going deep. What did we reflect on? What are some of the challenges that we never would have known had we not had this experience?
[:[00:21:57] Or a he that they would've informed me so that I wouldn't misrepresent them even by way of an introduction. So it's not about impressing the learners per se, but more about equipping them to be able to do what they need. And so I feel like this four D model helps even in the context of cultural
[:[00:22:35] Kristal: Well, I think the short answer is that you don't tend to make the training a hero. Like the training itself. The training even itself is not the hero. It's more about the lifecycle of the learning experience. So one of the reasons why I built a four D lifecycle is so that I can disrupt that one and done mentality that tends to plague a lot of corporate training professionals, right?
[:[00:23:17] I'm baking in this context on these sort of questions like, or quick reference guides or job aids or manager coaching prompts even before we get started so that we don't isolate. The training to that one experience. In the delivery phase, I tend to train facilitators to invite those reflectors and to challenge assumptions whenever they can, but also to be mindful of that.
[:[00:23:55] Is there something that the learners not just remember, but what are they actually doing differently as a result of this and that we actually help move the needle in any way? So, again, short answer, but when I think about CQ development and how we can continue on its efforts, well after the training experience, it's about creating an opportunity for that content to be embedded into their learning experience and not just another episodic mode of training where, hey, this is a one and done, and when I leave here, I don't even have to think about this anymore.
[:[00:24:34] Kristal: Definitely spread across the organization, but I have just last week my visit to our headquarter campus, I had to do training for specific departments. It was by way of requests from their managers. One manager wanted us to do some training. It was to unpack a personality assessment with their team.
[:[00:25:05] But most of the training programs that I do, I would say there tend to be spread across the organization.
[:[00:25:26] Trisha: So those resources you talked about are really important to take back to their teams.
[:[00:25:32] Absolutely.
[:[00:25:51] Kristal: Absolutely Trisha. I think authenticity is one of the major tools that helps build credibility.
[:[00:26:04] right? And so that is one of the prerequisites. Before I can go into any training environment, before I take any stage, obviously I'm going to understand my audience, and that doesn't mean that I can't be unfiltered, right? That's not a pass for me to just show up and say anything on stage or do anything on stage or to have an appearance that's not reflective of my audience. It's more about aligning my values with my voice. And so when I think about leaders who tend to stay rooted in their identity, especially in diverse spaces, they can make better connections with the audience.
[:[00:27:00] Again, whether it's classroom learning, whether it's something that's delivered by way of an e-learning experience or a keynote stage in front of thousands of individuals, they can feel it.
[:[00:27:18] And I think of that a lot. Especially actually in your situation, as you said, when you went through your training, when you were a very small percentage of, you know, the people within the group.
[:[00:27:42] Kristal: That's a really good question, Trisha. I think one of the ways that I tend to do it is to helping tend to help people rewrite the, a common question, which is, how do I fit in?
[:[00:27:54] Kristal: Right. And I think when we go into spaces, especially spaces that tend to be pretty foreign to us from a cultural perspective, we're too focused on asking that one question, how do I fit in?
[:[00:28:12] Right. And so I think if you ask that question, you're gonna get a better answer as opposed to trying to fit in. I think our brain automatically is designed to protect us. And so depending on what it is that we're trying to fit into, if we have a previous association to that culture or that environment that didn't serve us well, we're automatically in a heightened alert of how we're gonna navigate that space.
[:[00:28:56] Or I may be up against community either way. How am I gonna show up? How am I gonna remain grounded in who I am? How am I gonna make sure that I can leverage mutual respect? How can I create win-win situations for me and for the other individuals that I'm gonna be engaging with within this cultural context?
[:[00:29:18] Trisha: Yeah, absolutely. It is gonna do some work. It's, and it's gonna need your metacognition, your CQ strategy. You're gonna have to be aware of self aware of others, aware of environment, and just recognize how you're showing up and what is happening within you. Yeah.
[:[00:29:52] Right? But what are the boundaries? Like, I tend to say no to places that I feel like. I know for a fact they weren't designed for me, so I'm not gonna put myself in a situation and stretch both myself as well as others in that environment when I know that's not for me. It serves me no value, no worth.
[:[00:30:40] I used to do that often. So growing up in corporate America. Leaning into this whole concept, for example, that happens a lot where as a woman leader, your thoughts or your ideas may be stolen by your male counterparts, right? How do you navigate that space, which could be very tricky. I used to have this concept.
[:[00:31:28] But if we aren't careful. It's, and just showing up in those spaces that we know are not designed for us, then you run a risk of how am I gonna manage this on my own? But if I talk this through with someone who I know is going to be helpful, who's gonna serve as my ally? I get to bring up the idea, and then they can jump in and say, oh, yeah, Kristal, that's a great idea, and here's why.
[:[00:32:07] Trisha: You've spoken about Brave spaces, which is a concept I love. How do you create those in practice? Is that part of this allyship? But you know, it might be in a training environment or you know, in situations where people might feel there are risks. Tell us more about the Brave Spaces concept.
[:[00:32:50] So it, it's not that I don't care if anyone happens to know about this particular thing associated with me, but. It is very sacred to me, and I hold that dear to my heart. And so I believe that brave spaces are built, they're not assumed, and they have to be built with great intention, right? And so for me it's about when I am facilitating the training, for example, and I'm going over my housekeeping rules I actually do say that this is a safe and a brave space.
[:[00:33:18] And the intent behind, including the brave portion of that concept is that it's a space for growth and not perfection. And I tend to try to normalize discomfort as often as I can to get people comfortable and oftentimes, Trisha, that takes me being the one to step out and share information for me.
[:[00:34:01] Like, oh. So then I started asking the question, well, why do they have that type of. Assumption or that type of reaction I should say. And it is based merely off of their assumptions, it's based off their assumptions of what they know and what they think about hip hop. Right? I have some individuals who I never would've thought who have like a very healthy, loving relationship with hip hop, and I would've never known that unless I had brought it up.
[:[00:34:43] It shares how they tend to engage and communicate with people.
[:[00:35:03] If I create a space for you to be able to share something that's pretty personal and intimate with you. Please know that not only am I not gonna share it out in the context of this training experience, but I wanna respect that as being very sacred for you as an individual, and I wanna respect that.
[:[00:35:33] We were, encouraged, pushed to grow, to develop, to get out there and do things.
[:[00:35:40] Trisha: Yeah.
[:[00:35:48] Kristal: For me, my goal at this stage in my life, Trisha, is about legacy.
[:[00:36:08] And so anytime I'm in front of an audience and I have an opportunity to speak through words, through training, through coaching, or just general conversation. My goal is to sow seeds where people can actually grow in places that I may not ever see. And so I'm hoping that people feel, you know, invincible when they realize just how essential they are.
[:[00:36:45] Trisha: I love that and I love the thought of sowing seeds that you can't see. Now, maybe someone listening to this is one of those seeds, but maybe you wanna be visible and maybe you would love to connect with Dr. Kristal. So. Kristal, if people do wanna connect with you, where is it best to do that? Is it LinkedIn?
[:[00:37:11] Kristal: I think LinkedIn will be the best. Method to get in contact with me, just shoot me a connection request, follow connection request. I'd be happy to follow up. I tend to always accept them unless something looks extremely weird or off if it looks like spam, you know, I'll probably try to. Stay away from it.
[:[00:37:49] And, you know, may, you may have a question about. The work that I do at Sweetwater, or you may have a question about the work that I do within training industry or for Proverbs University, and so I just wanna make sure that I'm pointing you in the right direction as opposed to just giving you a website or an email address if you connect with me on LinkedIn.
[:[00:38:09] Trisha: That is fantastic. And Kristal, as you look at your life and the people you've worked with and your family and community. And as you look at the future, what are you hoping for?
[:[00:38:52] Trisha: That is wonderful. Thank you so much, Kristal, for sharing your. Knowledge, your wisdom, your experience. We really appreciate it.
[:[00:39:13] And I look forward to you joining us again next week for the next episode on the shift.
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